Curse

Vincaro · Jun 26, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

I have one thing to say. Warrior is the class that any Moron can play. Some classes take skill

Vincaro · Jun 26, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

OK, Now I see the problem, Warrior at most you can have two skills that damage more than one foe, Cyclone axe and Triple Chop. Ele's can throw down skill after skill that hit every enemy in the area and I'm not talking AoE. Any damage over time skill sucks except Meteor Shower (or Meteor Swarm in factions) which should be used sparingly because of exhaustion. And as far as damage dealers, A good Assassin beats a Warrior without exception, their only problem is their lower lvl armor.

YienTheYien · Jun 27, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by joncoish

actually, meteor swarm is spelt meteor swarm.

...and "spelt" is spelled "spelled".

It's not "I spelt 'Victory' incorrectly" but rather "I spelled 'Victory' incorrectly".

Just thought I'd share that.

Anyway, everyone here should, if they haven't already, read Ensign's "Why Nuking Sucks" thread: <http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113319&highlight=Why+Nuking+Sucks >. It's somewhat depressing to Nuker-lovers but it's the truth, he's got billions of numbers to back it up

.

AndrewAtHome · Jun 27, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I can still do almost anything I want with my eles. For example: I use earth to farm trolls, air I spike and blind in AB's, I can do runs using armor of mist, I could echo nuke in FoW, and much more. Great stuff.

Master Fuhon · Jun 27, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

But compared to other damage-dealing classes, Eles dominate in the ''non- conditional aoe direct damage in one spell'' realm.

Too much reliance on skill descriptions will make you think that there are no conditions. The single greatest condition on the heavy damage spells is moving. Otherwise you can get around this by paying 25 energy for Rodgort's Invocation, Lightning Hammer, Deep Freeze, or Earthquake for true no conditions damage to a variety of targets. I disagree mostly with this statement because you specifically made a reference to "aoe direct damage". It gets hard to dominate with 25 energy spells, but I'll admit that it is indeed domination to let Rodgort's and Earthquake chains loose on a crowd if someone is letting you maintain Elemental Attunement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Eles do powerful spells that target groups right on the dot without them or their enemy having to do or have anything. Yet, those powerful spells are depleted due to armor buffs.

Meteor Showers are ridiculous in PvE, and I don't even quite understand the complaints about level 28 damage reduction because I usually stack them with Fireballs, Rodgorts, or other Meteor Showers. I don't mind even dropping 20% damage on a large group in the time it takes a warrior to kill 1/12. And then theres PvE downtime to help regen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Eles can Blind them, Weaken them, snare them, dodge them, KD them.

You have a build that doesn't kill anything. Maybe you end up trading lightning orbs with the warrior who uses healing signet in this duel. But you do need to do three things to this warrior. Prevent almost all of his damage, deal a respectable amount of damage despite his heavy armor, and disrupt his healing. While the elementalist could certainly win a pure Ele vs. pure Warrior, if the warrior is using hex removal, condition removal, or non-melee knockdown; he will kill you if you stick around. Throw a monk into the equation and it becomes imposible to maintain warrior hate for long enough for you to make the kill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Now, this thread seems to have been in favor of making Warriors seem invincible and hands down the BEST profession in GW.

We all play at different levels. Try playing in a PUG and see who gets away with the most mistakes. PvE Warrior is the easiest class to play poorly and never become aware of how bad you are. You easily could be the last one alive in every one of your groups. I've never seen PvE warriors coordinate with each other in a PUG. They frequently stack the same conditions on a target, the hammer warrior using Sprint/Frenzy gets targeted more than the riposte w/ swords and glads defense. An average elementalist, ends up dead after every instance of poor aggro control. The melee mobs follow someone else right onto you after that target dies. A good elementalist has the option of running and outliving the monk, or sticking around and going out with a bang.

There are alot of bad warriors who don't end up spending the time they deserve on the turf for making fatal mistakes (I monk too). My PvE W/Mo doesn't get through a single mission/quest without having to use Protector's Defense or Healing Breeze on another warrior. There are certain points when you can get away with charging into a large group, drawing focused fire for a short period of time, and surviving (even at the PvP level, although not always at the highest levels of competition). You could try playing a class poorly for once and see what you get away with. I like running mob scattering area of effect sometimes. While it does have defensive uses, its more fun than controlled nuking. (Dual Attunes, Firestorm, Fireball, Searing Heat, Bed of Coals, Rodgorts, Earthquake = complete chaos that most PUGs don't seem to notice). If you're not careful you will cause your group to wipe, because auto-attack warriors do follow.

Elementalists have yet to become a force necessary to counter, with the exception of those bosses. Some comments come close to being a blanket statement that the talent level of elementalists isn't as high as those playing warrior, and that they really are capable of doing more consistent damage. For every warrior getting the glory and the kills, you usually end up having solid monks and a strong support team handling the rest. Warriors are simple to play and highly rewarding for doing anything right. Elementalists are punished for not playing flawlessly.

Apok Omen · Jun 27, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Fuhon, I agree that Eles are a much harder class to play, since it requires to pay more attention to whats happening. Make one mistake as an Ele and you get yelled at as if you are a monk who couldnt heal someone in time.

Warriors, in PvE, just stand still, wait till a huge mob comes by, and pulls them to the group, and ends up being the only one up.

Warrior: does more damage to a single target than an ele.

Ele: does good damage to any number of enemies adjacent to where the spell was cast.

There, its that simple.

Does Eles suck at doing heavy doses of damage? Yes. But we do good damage to groups in one spell that only requires energy to hit.

Master Fuhon · Jun 27, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Make one mistake as an Ele and you get yelled at as if you are a monk who couldnt heal someone in time.

I've only seen GvG flagger Eles criticized by the regular population in similar fashion to what monks get. Monk abuse is a monster of its own, however, I have only experienced criticism while playing as an elementalist in PvE once(Monk complained about me taking damage from aggro transfer by another caster. On request, I hung all the way back and outlived that monk when the group wiped). Warriors have to deal with getting rejected from groups already overloaded with warriors, but generally you don't get criticized. Assassins have an up front discrimination that most groups don't want them at all. A mesmer might have to take the initiative and form a group on his own. Other classes can pick up and play, and an elementalist might be one of the best at doing this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Does Eles suck at doing heavy doses of damage? Yes. But we do good damage to groups in one spell that only requires energy to hit.

That is a reputation that people have varying opinions on, but I'm glad that there are people who view an elementalist as a damage dealer. Personally, I would rank the PvE elementalist as the best to play, over the minion master who doesn't fully get to enjoy the group because he is maintaining an army. It's more fun to watch the minions to me than to worry about taking care of them. I don't like SS for animation reasons only. So for that reason you can always get a group because most people aren't crunching damage numbers in PvE.

I rate Elementalist the highest for being able to give orders to a PvE group, since there is time to type in the middle of long cast spells. Any other class I'm only drawing arrows on the minimap. And its a class to be played kind of like an assassin, if you die easy then it only gets kind of funny after a while. Remember to take one for your monk or minion master. Of course, there is more pressure in PvP and that's what I was refering to in my statement about paying more for mistakes. In PvE, you may be the only one who knows that you messed up (like getting attunements stripped or slight mistiming of showers).

LightningHell · Jun 27, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincaro

OK, Now I see the problem, Warrior at most you can have two skills that damage more than one foe, Cyclone axe and Triple Chop. Ele's can throw down skill after skill that hit every enemy in the area and I'm not talking AoE. Any damage over time skill sucks except Meteor Shower (or Meteor Swarm in factions) which should be used sparingly because of exhaustion. And as far as damage dealers, A good Assassin beats a Warrior without exception, their only problem is their lower lvl armor.

Warriors have the highest DPS one can have, period. Assassins may have the uphand on spiking.

Also, there is no unconditional DoT AoE...they have to STAY in the AoE for it to deal that pathetic "massive damage".

LoyalSoldier · Jun 27, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Warriors have the highest DPS one can have, period. Assassins may have the uphand on spiking.

Also, there is no unconditional DoT AoE...they have to STAY in the AoE for it to deal that pathetic "massive damage".

I think the problem with elementalist is that people get wrapped up on the fact the damage numbers say "128"

The way the game(and the monks) is set up seems to favor speed. I mean Protective spirit alone is enough to stop any major attacks from an elementalist.

joncoish · Jun 29, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Bah, quit being so anal guys. Meteor Swarm obviously means meteor shower.

Evilsod · Jun 29, 2006, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Warriors have the highest DPS one can have, period. Assassins may have the uphand on spiking.

Also, there is no unconditional DoT AoE...they have to STAY in the AoE for it to deal that pathetic "massive damage".

Its just ironic really that in PvE the biggest killers are usually eles. Be it Boss or regular monster. The Jade Brotherhood Mages (much to my hatred) can chain Dragon Stomps together perfectly for 3 successive KD's on rather moronic henchman, dropping them to about 40% health. 40% health which is quite easily taken off by the Jade Brotherhood Knights and there Triple Chop/Cyclone Axe spamming.
Plus the Saltspray Dragons (constantly) own entire groups of henchman with Ride the lightning + PBAoE chains.
Worst 1 though has to be the Second Wind turtle boss. To my Ranger its Dragon Stomp deals 160 damage, and only 1 part of Aftershock does too. So to henchman... ~320ish on casters and if they survive long enough, instant death from Aftershock. The warrior bosses are ridiculously easy, it just takes 1 Throw Dirt or Shadowsong spirit and they cant touch you. Same could be said for BHA and Daze on an ele, difference is the eles require the entire team to go at them to make sure they cant cast.

Phades · Jun 29, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Pve is not a good place to judge effect, because bosses have amplified damage, opponenets outnumber the group, opponent levels are higher than level 20, henchmen are stupid etc.

Eles only require 1 person to shut them down completely. The difference you are noting, is that the ele will usually require a mesmer while the warrior shutdown comes from many different sources. But then again, since you wanted to rely on something rather random (shadow song) as "reliable" shutdown for a specific target, dissonance will flat out own just about anything then opposed to only warriors.

Nice example of dissonance working nicely was on zu hanuku in boreas seabed with a "joke" painful bond build. The spirits ripped him a new one in no time.

djr1 · Jul 05, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

This whole argument about "Do Elementalists Suck?" is very entertaining. Assassins seem to be by far the worst (mainly at staying alive), but an elementalist is no worse than any other class. I have been an elementalist since I started Guild Wars and wouldn't have it any other way.

I find the best way to live a little longer if you find yourself dominated by enemies is to never fall below 10 energy. Just consider 10 energy your bottom line - then when all the warriors turn on you for a throat slitting you can set off Tenai's Wind, knock them all over, and run far far away... (preferable in the direction of the monk).

I find it helps to know who you're fighting. If you know there is, say, a monk boss, probably best to take lots of nuking skills to dispose of him as quick as possible, maybe if you're dealing with mesmers/ritualists/mages who shand in clumps at a distance, take spells which damage targets in an area, and as I'm also a necromancer, i cherish the good old Deathly Swarm!

Skill & energy management is the key, I guess with any profession. Be at one with your character!

Rin · Jul 05, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

i switched from fire to earth when factions came out, and never looked back......

In PvE, I run:

Earth Attunement
Armor of Earth (+62 armor @ 16 earth)
Kinetic Armor (+84 armor @ 16 earth)
Crystal Wave (106 dmg @ 16 earth)
Obsidian Flame (118 dmg @ 16 earth)
Stone Daggers (58 dmg @16 earth, less depending on armor. My bread and butter dmg skill.)
Ether Renewal {E}
Reveral of Fortune

When energy gets low, I spam reversal of fortune/stone daggers after casting ether of renewal. +15 energy every time I cast (3 * 5 enchanments) . Of course, only danger is enchantment stripping. Wish obsidian flame didn't cause exhaustion. I usually stay in the back and only cast crystal wave if melee comes to me, I rarely go after them. Obsidian + stone daggers does the job fairly well.